but I would have difficulty understanding it if most of it is written in odd metaphors like that as well.

nobody reads film scripts. producer: when he or she gets done tellin you whatta work of genius it is, they ask you to tell em what it's about. director: no sense inhibiting creativity. actors: see director...why bother?

Who cares,
That is the person I am replying to here:
"You ever notice how people are commenting here as if they have first hand knowledge. These people are so convinced they are right they are willing to try to influence someone else to thier belief. Are you willing to take responsibility for that and the possible consequences. How far are you willing to go in this endeavor. Are you sure you are right or is this your interpretation. Becareful that you don't hurt yourself on your own commandments, I mean views......... Better make sure your house is in order or stop preaching......"

Are you talking about me 'trying to influence others" or about the others who are trying to influence us. Either way...Iconoclast has his own belief...and I have mine...so which one of us are you talking about, because you could twist it either way...we are both defending our own stance. Why would I so staunchly defend something if I didnt believe in it 100%? Define interpretation...you could also twist that so it goes for either iconoclast or myself. We both interpret things or own way...or are you just annoyed at the way I interpret things because I believ ein God and you dont? My commandments...are not my views...I follow the commandments. my viewpoint is the Christian faith and its teachings. So since you are on here telling me what to do, it means your house is in order? Are you sure you are right...or just your interpretation?

Iconoclast...
" If I ask God for forgiveness, how will I know he forgave me? Because a little voice in my head says so? That's my conscience. Or maybe just wishful thinking. Besides, if God is all-loving and all-forgiving, why should I even have to ask?"

Because, he said. Obvioulsy if you just have heartidly say God forgive me and dont really mean it...he wont. You have to want it. Its not a voice...its his spoken word in the Bible that says it. You should ask because you need to ask God for forgiveness...not just because he is God. God is God..so what...is he going to give you a new caddy because you put in a buck in the tithe plate? No...he only gives you what you need and ask for. Why should he give you forgiveness if you cant even ask for it from him. He wont give, unless you ask.

"excellent question. the only sensible answer is: this is nothing a truly superior being would do."

One of those "all purpose" answers I said I was trying to avoid, but I do understand what a tough question it is to answer.

#2: God gave man Free Will.

I do not want free will. Therefore, by god forcing it on me, my will is not free. I do not want to be here. Therefore, by being forced to be here, my will is not free. You cannot have an after-the-fact free will. A truly free will must be always free or it never really was. The only answer to this dogma is that I actually DID choose to be here, AND I chose to not know that I chose to be here when I got here. But Ockhams Razor(the principle, not the blogger) laughs at that one. That is NOT the simple answer.

Why do people fight logic instead of trying to come up with an explanation that makes sense? It IS possible to come up with an interpretation of human/cosmological/religious/whatever history that doesn't make God out to be this money-grubbing, insecure, death-dealing maniac, and it always fascinates me that so many Christians prefer things that way. I guess it's a more human way of being, and thus more familiar/tangible. Is it just easier to follow the book, guys? Just close your eyes and blindly run forward waving the word of god whenever someone makes a good point? Don't you ever wonder what exactly is the mechanism by which the son of god's death unlocked some door somewhere for souls to go through? Or do you just shut your eyes and not think about it?

That is why it is called faith. One cannot prove or disprove the existance. You can only go so far with logic, before you either aceept he does not exist, or make the 'leap of faith'.

If there IS this God the Christians claim exists, surely the greatest sin against him is starting to have faith WAY before thinking has failed. And here's a measure. If you can't get through the first page of Finnegan's Wake, your brain still needs some exercise before you give up. Some of you stop thinking about it before you've even tried to start. THAT is sinful to me.

Ike makes some very simple good points. If I did not come to my life through a volitional act, it is not possible that anything about me is free - especially not my will. Is that not elegant in its simplicity? It's like the second you see it you shut your mind down and go to the book for fear of thinking. If you think I DID come to my own life through my own volition, then talk about how that set of universal functions operates. The Christian argument always boils down to "The Book says so." No offense, but that's really weak. Make it make sense or admit that it just doesn't! I'd have far more respect and would be far more inclined to listen to the Christians if they said something on the order of "You know what...you're right. None of this makes a lick of logical sense at all. I just believe it anyway." At least I'd feel you were being honest with yourselves then.

Cmon folks...there's a way here that makes sense. What is it? THINK!

I'd have far more respect and would be far more inclined to listen to the Christians if they said something on the order of "You know what...you're right. None of this makes a lick of logical sense at all. I just believe it anyway."

Ministers, priests, etc. can't do that, or they would soon be out of a job.

Good deeds are worth far more than false praise

Which is why I can't be Christian. I can't 'Love the Lord your God with all (my) heart'. It's not for lack of trying either, I've tried and tried: I even immersed myself in a church for a few years and taught Sunday school...but I felt like a hypocrite doing it and quit.

Now I'm relatively a happy Taoist/Buddhist. I believe that there is something bigger than all of us at work, but I don't believe that it's the Christian version of an all-powerful God. (besides, if he's so powerful, why doesn't he put a stop to some of the horrors that are going on? let me guess...'free will', right? That makes no sense to me)
I do think that Christianity, when you take away the dogma, has some really good lessons on how to live your life and act towards your neighbor. In the words of the immortal Zoomba, they can be summed up in one sentence: 'Don't be a dick'.

Oh, and sorry I'm so late to the party (and my comments were probably way off-topic by now, so I apologize for that too...)

I do think that Christianity, when you take away the dogma, has some really good lessons on how to live your life and act towards your neighbor.

Do what you wanna
Do what you will.
Just don't mess up
Your neighbor's thrill. - Frank Zappa

Oh, and sorry I'm so late to the party (and my comments were probably way off-topic by now, so I apologize for that too...)

np